This Christmas, pastor Max Lucado joins Glenn to explain the real meaning and miracle of Christmas in the context of the End Times: “Christmas initiates what Easter accomplishes…Jesus came to deal with sin.” But the story doesn’t end there. “God has high plans for all of us,” Max says. “He’s recruiting for himself a people who will populate His eternal kingdom.” This is why, although we celebrate God coming down as a baby, we must remember that He’s coming back again in a much different form: “according to the Book of Revelation, He will return on a white horse as a conquering King and He will destroy those who have destroyed His children.”
Transcript
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Max Lucado is here with us. Max, how are you?
MAX: I'm great. You're telling me, that's an 18 -- was that a recording of her singing?
GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. She put out a new CD.
MAX: Wow. She sounds so mature!
GLENN: Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.
MAX: When I had an 18-year-old voice, I don't -- she sounds like she's been, I don't know, a 30, 35-year-old. A real developed -- what a gift. Congratulations.
GLENN: Yeah. Thank you.
So, Max, I wanted to have you on. Because Christmas is always made about the baby.
And that's truly a miracle.
But the real miracle is that he grew up without full understanding, I think, for probably most of us his life, of who he was.
He still was human. And he chose to take on the sacrifice for all of us.
MAX: Uh-huh.
GLENN: And so the Christmas miracle really is just the beginning of the Easter miracle.
MAX: Uh-huh. Yeah.
GLENN: That his birth and his death gave us a chance to clear out all the garbage in our life. And everybody talks about depression at the holidays. Loneliness at the holidays. And I think if we actually seat meaning behind Christmas, that takes a lot of that away.
MAX: Uh-huh. It does. It does.
And that's why I think, what you said, is absolutely true. That Christmas initiates what Easter accomplishes. You know, he --
GLENN: Right. Right.
MAX: The accomplishment of the Easter miracle is where we truly find our hope. But it's -- if T begins with the Christmas incarnation. You know, when -- when Joseph was told by the angel what to expect.
He said, you shall give him the name Jesus. Because he will save people from their sins. So your point is right on, Glenn. Jesus came to deal with sin. To deal with sin.
And, in fact, the rename Jesus, in the Hebrew language, traces its origin to Yahshua, which is a shortening of Yahashua, which means God saves.
So every time someone said the name Jesus, they said, God saves. God saves. Come to dinner. You know, his very name was a reminder of what he came to do.
GLENN: Wow.
And when I'm -- I'm -- you know, people look at Jesus. And they think, well, I can't be forgiven for what I've done, or whatever. And he was perfect, whatever. He was still human.
He still had a choice. He asked in the Garden of Gethsemane. Please, please, let this cup pass from me. Please, I don't want to do this. But he chose to do it anyway.
Which just shows, everything in life is a choice of, are we going to stand?
Are we not going to stand?
And it all matters.
But if we fail, he's got us covered.
And he understands!
MAX: He does. He does.
And the fact is, he came to save us.
And not just save us from enemies or challenges. Or difficulties.
But he came to save us from sin.
And here's why that really matters. God has high plans for all of us.
He's recruiting for himself, a people, who will populate his eternal kingdom.
And his plan is to restore this planet. And his children, into the Garden of Eden's splendor.
What we see in the beginning, is God's plan for the end, and that is a perfect paradise.
One word describes heaven, and that's perfect. And one word describes us, and that's imperfect.
And so God had to have a way, to pay for our imperfections, so that he could welcome us. He's not going to lower the standard of heaven, and welcome imperfection into heaven.
So what he did. He became flesh. He became one of us.
And he really lived to the life that we were intended to live. Adam and Eve were intended to live.
And that is in a similar state. But when we don't, and we don't, his provision is that he will save us.
We don't save ourselves.
He saves us. He rescues us.
And that's why the Christmas message is such a miracle.
MAX: So we're talking to Max Lucado. Kind of the Ted Lasso of pastors.
And how do you reconcile -- you know, we always -- oh, well, Jesus was very forgiving.
Yes, he was. Jesus, he was a lamb. Well, yes, he was.
He was so sweet. The baby is so sweet. Yeah.
And then reconcile that with, all the smote, that went on. In the Old Testament.
And also, what's going to happen, in the future.
I mean, he is not just that -- he's fierce, as well!
MAX: And -- and though we love the baby Jesus, in the manger, we -- our next vision and our next encounter with Christ, of his return to earth.
He will return, according to the Book of Revelation.
He will return on a white hour or so.
As a conquering king. And he will destroy those who have destroyed his children.
I think when we take this -- the smiting and the smote, out of context.
And just say, there were times in which, you know, these people were all destroyed, we don't realize what is taking place here.
We don't realize, that there were times in which babies were being sacrificed on altars.
We don't realize that the Promised Land was initially inhabited by people who were engaged in every -- even more immoral activity than we can imagine.
The vast majority of which was against children in temples.
So these people who have -- who just -- it's not that they have a disagreement with God. They just have a hatred at God, and a hatred of his creation.
GLENN: So I don't know how Biblical this is. This is just me and my thinking.
And I don't know if this is even really Biblical, so you're here to correct me.
But I always look at those things. The smiting and, you know, the smote.
That really, he's just saved us from. In this last election. He stepped in. He wasn't neutral in our affairs. And he -- he gave us another chance.
That I don't think we deserved.
But it's -- it's like right now, he can put his blessings on us. To expand the time that it takes for us to reap the harvest that we have sown.
Or he can just remove it, and the -- the smiting is not really from him. It's from us!
We do it! We bring it on ourselves.
It's our belief, our policies.
Our everything that we're doing in our lives, that brings that to us.
He's just the dad going, no. That's a glass door. Don't run -- don't run into the glass door. That will hurt. That will leave a mark. I Think that's what he does.
And his system is so perfect, that he tells us, don't do those things, because this will happen!
And it's not him carrying out a judgment. And looking at each of us. And going, well.
I think it's just automatic.
And only Jesus can -- he -- only Jesus can take away the sin.
That we have. But that doesn't mean that the consequence isn't paid.
Here in life.
MAX: Absolutely. Absolutely.
GLENN: Is that -- is that a correct way to look at it?
MAX: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
You know, Christ will always save us from our sins. He does not always deliver us from our consequences.
GLENN: Correct.
MAX: Of those sins. You know, if I say, Lord, I'm so sorry.
I've been disrespectful to my wife for 20 years of marriage. I repent. Please forgive me.
You can bet forgiveness is issued.
That does not mean that my wife, whom -- and I haven't done this, by the way.
But that doesn't mean that my neglected wife is going to have warm feelings towards me.
I'm damaged -- there's damage there.
And there will take time for reconciliation.
There are many prisoners. Being imprisoned right now.
And they would themselves tell you. And they told me this.
They're forgiven.
They're going to heaven.
But they will serve out their sentence. Because they violated the law, that the country created.
So, again, God forgives us for our sins.
He doesn't always deliver us immediately, from the consequences.
What he does do is give us power to move forward.
As he removes the guilt. He also disempowers the devil, who wants to keep us in that trap, in that stropping hold.
But he'll give you power. So that you don't make that same mistake again.
GLENN: Max Lucado, has been called America's pastor. And the best preacher in America, and I tend to agree with those.
Let me give you two minutes here, just to deliver any Christmas message that you feel compelled to do.
MAX: Oh, what a blessing. Thank you.
Well, Jesus came to save us. Colossians 1:19 said. God was pleased for all of himself to dwell in Christ. So do you want to see the face of God? Then look at the face of Jesus.
All the love of God was in Jesus. All the strength of God was in Jesus.
All the compassion of God was in Jesus. And God for a time, was in the body of an earthly carpenter. Jesus did this work for us, to show us who God is. And how much he loves us.
He saved us from the guilt of our sin. And we're being saved from the problem of our skin. And upon return of Christ. He's going -- we will be saved from the punishment of sin.
God saves. Again, that's the name Jesus.
Now, that gift is nothing. If we don't accept it.
When I was a Boy Scout.
I earned a lifesaving merit badge.
I actually didn't save anyone. The only people I saved was Boy Scouts who didn't need to be saved.
And that was during training sessions. And I would tell them, quit kicking. Let me save you!
I wonder how much times God is saying that today. Maybe there's somebody listening right now.
You're kicking against God. You're straining against God.
You're fighting against God. Maybe he's saying, why don't you just quit kicking?
Let me do the work! Now, you can save yourself from a lot.
Maybe you can save yourself from running out of gas, or going broke. But you're not good enough to save yourself from your sin. You're not strong enough to save yourself from your death. You need a savior.
But because of Bethlehem, you have one.
GLENN: Max Lucado. Merry Christmas, thank you.
MAX: Merry Christmas to you, my friend. All the very best.
GLENN: Yeah. Thank you.
Max Lucado.